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On this episode, I speak to Darren Doherty. Darren is one of the world’s most well-respected farm planners. He has developed a design system called the Regrarians Platform, which incorporates ideas and from existing frameworks with Darren’s own innovations. The platform was greatly influenced by people such as PA Yeomans, whose scale of permanence forms the basis of Darren’s framework. Darren’s approach also draws on Allan Savory’s work in holistic management and Bill Mollison and David Holmgren’s insights from permaculture.
Darren has worked around the world in many different kinds of climates and also has extensive experience regenerating landscapes in Australia.
Darren and his family have also produced an award-winning film called Polyfaces, which profiles Joel Salatin and his family on their innovative farm in Virginia. You can stream it at polyfaces.com.
I wanted to talk to Darren about his own history, and also get his thoughts on the bushfires in Australia, and how we can try to mitigate them in the future.
We don’t spend a lot of time specifically discussing the Regrarians Platform itself, so I encourage you to look up Darren’s lectures on YouTube, or go to regrarians.org to learn more about it.
At some points, we do get a little bit into the weeds, but even if you’re not familiar with land management or farming, I think you’ll still find Darren’s insights on those topics interesting.
01:54 The One-Straw Revolution by Masonoba Fukuoka: https://www.amazon.com/One-Straw-Revolution-Introduction-Natural-Classics/dp/1590173139
Show Notes
03:49 Darren’s experience growing up on his grandparents’ farm
06:26 Letting nature take its course/ doing “nothing”
08:40 Darren’s career trajectory
13:10 Darren’s Regrarians Handbook is being released chapter by chapter on his website: http://www.regrarians.org/regrarian-handbook/
16:44 The last agrarians in Australia
18:18 Agriculture’s impact on the planet
19:56 humans as the primary geological force
20:39 European arrival in Australia
22:05 Species extinctions in Australia and “re-assembling a nature”
23:17 The debate around using non-native species in Australia to regenerate ecosystem processes
24:24 Yeoman’s scale of permanance and the Regrarians platform: http://www.regrarians.org/about/the-regrarians-platform/
25:17 Tim Flannery’s books Europe: The First 100 Million Years: https://www.amazon.com.au/Europe-Natural-History-Tim-Flannery/dp/0141989025 and The Future Eaters: https://www.amazon.com.au/Future-Eaters-Ecological-History-Australian/dp/0802139434/
26:15 The New Nature by Tim Low: https://www.amazon.com/New-Nature-Tim-Low/dp/0670884669
27:01 Discussion about introduced hard-hoofed animals and comparison with Australian native megafauna
28:49 The world has changed a lot with the ongoing Sixth Extinction event, so we may not have the luxury to only use native species
29:12 What would Australia look like in 500,000 years if humans disappeared?
30:41 Willows: pros and cons for Australia
32:43 The nature of the current bureaucratic system is that most people only think short-term, worrying about personal job security
33:15 Darren’s thoughts about how to manage land in Australia to mitigate fires
34:16 Bioturbation that would have been performed by small mammals that are now extinct. This would have allowed soil to form rapidly, saving plant matter from burning
36:23 David Holmgren: “Nature is an equal opportunity employer”
36:49 David’s client who has been affected by recent fires
37:38 Black Saturday: the long-term stress impact
38:10 These fires: fewer human deaths, so we have focussed more on the destruction of nature
39:29 Changing demography of fire-affected regions: many older people may choose not to re-build, preferring to just stay in town.
41:45 The Australian environment is pyrophytic so we need to learn to deal with that
42:42 Government land management bureaucrats have lost all respect because their advice and regulations did not save people’s property in these fires
44:09 Darren’s blog post in response to the recent fires: http://www.regrarians.org/off-the-contour-25-a-holistic-future-or-will-jeremy-clarkson-be-proved-correct/
And his collection of educational resources for bushfire mitigation: http://www.regrarians.org/ron/ron-climate/beforethefire-resources/
45:01 Trying to mitigate the impact of fire with building regulations vs. choosing safer locations to build in the first place
45:52 Building production systems in forested areas that pays for bushfire mitigation, eg holistic planned grazing of livestock. Allan Savory’s book Holistic Management: https://www.amazon.com.au/Holistic-Management-Third-Commonsense-Environment-ebook/dp/B01MEFF61Y
47:37 Radially sawn timber: https://radialtimbers.com.au/
48:18 Charles Massy’s book Call of the Reed Warbler https://www.amazon.com.au/Call-Reed-Warbler-Agriculture-Earth-ebook/dp/B0753Y5C6T
50:34 Why not establish radial mills along eastern seaboard?
52:14 ABC Landline episode on radial timber: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-08/a-cut-above:-australian-ingenuity-turns-the-age/8690986
53:30 Darren’s thoughts on Peter Andrews’ Natural Sequence Farming methodology
56:55 Fire is not appropriate as a land management practice in some contexts
57:55 Fire is one tool, but it’s not the only tool
58:54 Darren discusses Yeoman’s keyline cultivation system and contrasts it with the practice of digging swales on-contour. In this video, Darren explains the keyline concept using sandcastles at the beach: https://youtu.be/lsWKyv9Hbak
59:57 Development of the Soil Conservation Service in the USA in the 1930s
1:02:31 “Fertility loss is the precursor to erosion”
1:02:47 No need for a swale if the existing soil has proper water infiltration capacity
1:04:14 Looking at the root cause of a problem vs. only looking at the effect, then trying to remedy that
1:08:42 “Try to have 100% groundcover 100% of the time”
1:09:49 Retrosuburbia by David Holmgren: https://store.holmgren.com.au/product/retrosuburbia/
1:10:42 Increasing eco-literacy by spending time in the environment and engaing with your food suppliers
1:12:00 “start to remove the amorphous nature of our relationship to everything”
1:13:25 Agriculture has become so “successful” that now only 1% of people produce food.
1:14:23 polyfaces.com and regrarians.org